tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-675840884075304933.post371947432890644077..comments2021-04-12T10:17:47.549-07:00Comments on Watchout Cross Country Rankings: NXN-MW vs. MW State meets - a statistical reviewUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-675840884075304933.post-38052000582365468922012-11-16T00:34:35.187-08:002012-11-16T00:34:35.187-08:00or use another column to change format from whatev...or use another column to change format from whatever you start with... such as "IF(cell*60*24>500,cell*60*24,cell*60*60*24)" which would change both mm:ss and hh:mm into raw seconds (as long as all the race times are over 8:20).watchouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02838975063853852963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-675840884075304933.post-23667657420336314632012-11-15T18:12:34.266-08:002012-11-15T18:12:34.266-08:00This is GREAT, and aligns very well with what I...This is GREAT, and aligns very well with what I'd found. Basically, your "94 sec" was for the top girl (probably even faster), whereas I was reporting the "average" girl (as I noted, I left out slower ones to not skew times - and under rough conditions, the ones I saw did even worse). <br /><br />Basically this has convinced me I should at least switch over to using ratios or percent diffs instead of time time diffs - just means I have to change the format on my stupid excel spreadsheet (I should find a way to make the time format default to a better format for xc times - who cares about time of day, anyway?); or enter minutes and seconds into diff columns.... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-675840884075304933.post-12650993817891146542012-11-15T17:30:35.796-08:002012-11-15T17:30:35.796-08:00I updated the post to include three general refere...I updated the post to include three general reference charts to better explain the differences, and removed the talk of how the base level compares between the courses to avoid the confusion.watchouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02838975063853852963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-675840884075304933.post-21509256350296750372012-11-15T17:24:09.425-08:002012-11-15T17:24:09.425-08:00You're right, I should have explained it as I ...You're right, I should have explained it as I did in the comment below, comparing how at XX:XX, the comparative time at XX State was XX:XX. But if I don't list the 200.0 mark, people would just assume that the difference is, say, 2:05 for girls and 1:35 for guys, even though that's not exactly true (if will vary depending on how fast/slow the runner is).watchouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02838975063853852963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-675840884075304933.post-6870040912294233682012-11-15T17:17:15.786-08:002012-11-15T17:17:15.786-08:00Another way to look at it, using these course diff...Another way to look at it, using these course differences described in my post...<br /><br />A 16:30 at NXN-MW for boys equates to:<br /><br />IL Boys = 14:55.22<br />MI Boys = 15:45.28<br />MO Boys = 16:26.30<br />IN Boys = 16:11.28<br />OH Boys = 15:52.24<br /><br /><br />And a 19:20 at NXN-MW for girls equates to:<br /><br />IL Girls = 17:20.71<br />MI Girls = 18:18.90<br />MO Girls = 19:06.59<br />IN Girls = 18:49.13<br />OH Girls = 18:27.00watchouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02838975063853852963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-675840884075304933.post-91808704841121104362012-11-15T17:14:47.219-08:002012-11-15T17:14:47.219-08:00Thanks again for the clarification, and for all yo...Thanks again for the clarification, and for all your hard work. I understand you're converting to a general scale, because you want to compare across many meets - and I truly thank you for that! - and that affects results somewhat. But it's confusing to me (and I'm sure others) to read that the IL course was on average 94 sec faster for girls, when that was true for only a tiny fraction (for most the IL course was, as you said, 1:43 to 2:37 faster). A girl who ran 1:45 slower at NXN could read the above analysis (prior to your comment) and think she slowed down more than average, when in fact she probably ran great at NXN. <br /><br />I've also sometimes computed the course diffs as ratios, which should equalize things for boys & girls (or faster vs um, less fast, runners). Ratio of times at NXN-MW to IL state was 1.119. [I didn't reach down below 21:00 precisely because that would skew the time-difference data]. Haven't checked ratios of boys, to see if that matches.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-675840884075304933.post-34431835418117365842012-11-15T17:06:21.962-08:002012-11-15T17:06:21.962-08:00In terms of raw time difference for IL girls, thes...In terms of raw time difference for IL girls, these were the average times of the 77 girls that ran both (61 of which were not outliers):<br /><br />Without taking out the outliers: 20:09.4 @ NXN-MW, 17:51.4 @ IL State<br />After removing all the outliers: 19:59.4 @ NXN-MW, 17:52.8 @ IL Statewatchouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02838975063853852963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-675840884075304933.post-60602820053814044442012-11-15T17:02:27.511-08:002012-11-15T17:02:27.511-08:00Well, I can't copy and paste all of the ones I...Well, I can't copy and paste all of the ones I found on here (replies are limited to 4096 characters apparently), but I found 77 girls that ran both NXN-MW and IL State. But the big difference between why you're getting a difference much larger than I am is because I use what amounts to a multiplier, rather than raw seconds difference.<br /><br />The girls that aren't outliers range from running 103.6 seconds slower (1:43.6) to 157.0 seconds slower (2:37.0); when talking about how big of a difference that is as a multiplier, the 200.0 rating for the courses is only a little more than 95 seconds (917.0 - 822.7 = 94.3) ... when you apply that multipler to where the girls are at, the difference fits. That's because the 200.0 mark I'm measuring a very fast level even for boys, which means there will be an even greater difference once you get down to the girls times.watchouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02838975063853852963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-675840884075304933.post-16563249671560874982012-11-15T16:27:59.167-08:002012-11-15T16:27:59.167-08:00I appreciate the info... but it doesn't line u...I appreciate the info... but it doesn't line up with what I see for IL, at least on the girls side. Of 67 girls I've identified as running both races, only 3 ran less than 94 seconds (or 99 for that matter) slower at NXN-MW (two had obviously bad state meets, well off PRs). The average difference was 2:06. Throw out outliers it's 2:03 (because 2 of the outliers were those 2 I just referenced, whereas there were a number who were slow at NXN). I can send the data if you'd like. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com